Curtatone, Hodgson Square Off as Part of Panel on Sanctuary Cities

DARTMOUTH—There were no fireworks, but there was plenty of discourse as the topic of sanctuary cities took center stage Thursday morning.

The UMass School of Law hosted an immigration symposium entitled "Breaking Down the Wall," put on by the UMass Law Review. It featured panels on sanctuary cities and refugees, as well as a keynote address from former Congressman Barney Frank. The panel on sanctuary cities was touted as a showdown of sorts between Bristol County Sheriff Thomas Hodgson and Somerville Mayor Joseph Curtatone, who have each come down on differing sides of the debate. Hodgson has called for any officials in charge of cities that harbor and protect illegal immigrants to be arrested for violating federal law, while Curtatone has referred to Hodgson as a "jack-booted thug."

"My presence here...should confirm that the sheriff was unsuccessful in his advocacy to have us arrested recently—so far," Curtatone joked to begin his opening statement.

But the mayor quickly turned serious, saying he appreciated the chance to come together and discuss the issue face-to-face.

"We need to listen to each other more," he said. "We have to base our arguments on what is real, what is factual, and not some negative rhetoric that is driving this debate."

Fellow panelist Emily Norton, a Newton city councilwoman, said she is upset that illegal immigrants are being objectified in the battle over sanctuary cities.

"I refer to these individuals as undocumented immigrants, not illegals. Because these are human beings and they deserve respect. To call someone that is not respectful," she said, drawing loud applause from the audience.

Curtatone and Norton both argued that much of the argument against sanctuary cities comes from a place of fear rather than facts.

"When policy is being driven not by facts or logic or reason, what is it? What is it?," Curtatone asked. "And in context, you see it is a twisted ideology, and it is rage that looks a whole lot like white nationalism."

Curtatone said Somerville has been a sanctuary city since 1987, and has seen crime drop 52.9 percent in that time. Norton said the same is true in Newton.

"We passed what we called the Welcoming City Ordinance in February of this year, and this ordinance does not change in any way what we were already practicing. We're already not in the business of detaining anyone on the basis of their immigration status alone," she said. "Newton has been recognized as the Safest City in American more than once under those policies."

The other panelist was Sarang Sekhavat, the Federal Policy Director for the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition. He took issue with Hodgson's claims that the Trump Administration isn't persuing a policy of deporting any and all illegals.

"The sheriff mentioned that this administration, this president, is (only) targeting criminals. The fact of that matter is, that's not true," Sekhavar said. "Under the prior administration, they did prioritize criminals and recent arrivals, but this administration has essentially gotten rid of any priorities. (Homeland Security) Secretary (John) Kelly admitted that to Congress just yesterday, that there are essentially no priorities anymore for immigration enforcement. Anyone they come across is now targeted for deportation, and those are resources that should be going toward those who pose a threat toward our communities, and now they're not."

At times, members of the audience spoke out against both Curtatone and Hodgson. One yelled out that Curtatone was "a bully," while others groaned aloud when Hodgson compared illegal immigrants to terrorists that have previously attacked our country.

"I'm not going to apologize," Hodgson said. "People can call me what they want to call me, and say what they want to say about me for keeping my promise to the people. But I'm not going to defy my oath. I'm not going to be told I should ignore an ICE notification if it's someone they want."

Things between the mayor and the sheriff were mostly amicable, but one exchange did get particularly testy. Curtatone likened the struggle of immigrants today to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 60s, stating that undocumented immigrants should receive the same rights as all Americans under the Constitution. Hodgson rebutted that by pointing out that nowhere in the Constitution does it mention undocumented immigrants should be extended the same rights and protections; he said that came from later court rulings.

"Who interprets the Constitution?" Curtatone interrupted.

"Pardon?" asked Hodgson.

"Who interprets the Constitution, you and I?" Curtatone repeated.

"No, I'm talking about the document itself," Hodgson replied.

"But you're interpreting the Constitution," Curtatone retorted.

"No, no, no. I can read it, I know what it says," Hodgson countered.

"I can read it too," Curtatone rebutted.